Author Topic: Windows 7  (Read 14542 times)

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Offline Superman

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Windows 7
« on: May 28, 2008, 07:46:21 AM »
Please please please bump this up.  No one wants your shitty Vista.

Quote from: Daily Tech
Windows Vista has its detractors, which have refused to adopt it, and it has its proponents who tell these parties to stop whining or get off the ship.  However, whether you are a critic of Vista or an advocate, chances are you hold at least a passing interest about Microsoft's next OS, Windows 7, set to release in 2010.

The Windows 7 project was originally led by Jim Allchin.  Now Steven Sinofsky has taken up the reins and is guiding the project.  Sinofsky urged his workers to maintain secrecy about the project until the development is in an advanced stage.

In a rare interview with CNET, Sinofsky finally offers a bit of insight on Windows 7.  Sinofsky subtly states that the team is learning from Windows Vista's pains, commenting, "The reactions that we've had to some of the lessons learned in Windows Vista are really playing into our strategy of getting together a great plan for Windows 7, and working with all the partners in the ecosystem in a very deliberate way, such that the end result is a very positive experience for all of us."

Sinofsky says that he wants to limit misinformation and make sure information given is pertinent to the consumer.  In response to Apple try to define the Windows experience in a negative light in the minds of consumers, Sinofsky comments, "In a way, what I would say is Apple isn't really talking about where they're going".

He confirms that Microsoft is committed to releasing Windows 7 "three years after the general availability of Windows Vista" a shorter release period than between Vista and XP.  Sinofsky refused to comment on Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates' comments in Miami in which he indicated that Windows 7, perhaps just in beta form was coming next year.

The increasing hardware complexity is not a negative but a positive, according to Sinofsky.  He acknowledges that some basic interface redesign may be needed, and he points to Vista's graphics interface redesign as an example of a similar successful redesign. 

Additional driver compatibilities will not be introduced in Windows 7 says Sinofsky -- that was the job of Windows Vista.  He says that Windows 7's kernel will be an evolution of the leaner kernel from Windows Server 2008, which in turn was an evolution over the Windows Vista kernel.

Adding more detail on the kernel, Sinofsky adds, "So, memory management, networking, process management, all of the security hardening, all of those things will carry forth, and maintain the compatibility with applications that people expect. Finally, we are going to make sure that the release is available both in 32 bit and 64 bit, which is an additional help for maintaining compatibility, particularly with device drivers."

While he wouldn't shed specifics on features of interest to the consumer, Sinofsky insisted, "But we're actually going to bring forward the compatibility, and we're going to make sure that there's a lot of value for everybody who's a customer of Windows 7."

As to the closed-lip policy, Sinofsky say Microsoft's approach is similar to that with Internet Explorer 8.  He says that like internet explorer, they will likely go to developers first, then advertise the features to consumers, after getting initial feedback.

Past that basic example Sinofsky refused to give much more details.  He concludes stating:

Let me just end with this. Look, we're working--the team is working super, super hard on this release of Windows, and you have to imagine we'd really be excited to start showing it to people. We want to show it, and we want people to get their hands on it, but we want to do that under the umbrella of being responsible members of the ecosystem, and being respectful of people's time and energy and the work that they'll put in to making Windows 7 great from the work that they can do.

Really Sinofsky did not add very much information to the picture on Windows 7.  He did offer some tantalizing clues on where the Windows 7 kernel is headed.  But he didn't provide much information on new features or the overall design direction.  The result is a double edged sword for Microsoft -- his carefully guarded remarks will likely increase the excitement and expectations for Windows 7.  Conversely, the OS may suffer from these same high expectations, though if it can't deliver.  It should be interesting to see in coming months as more information is released, but for now we can only wait.

Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 11:21:41 AM »
So far from the week and a half that I have spent using Vista at work I can say it doesn't appear to be that bad. But I am only using Outlook, Internet Explorer and Firefox on it so I'm not really taxing it that much.
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Offline Superman

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 11:26:38 AM »
I've been happy with my 98 and XP.  I've heard nothing but bad things (until now) about ME and Vista.  I'm hoping that skipping generations will be a successful strategy.

Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 12:47:43 PM »
ME was a dismal failure. Windows 98 was good. It fixed a lot of errors that were present in 95 and also shaped the desktop market. Look at how much that UI influenced various competitors with the taskbar and Start button. I know it was a modified idea from the Mac OS days but they backed it up better with marketing. XP was like the love child of 98's easy-to-learn UI and 2000's power. Vista was like XP had an abortion but the coat hanger lost that fight.

*edit: fixed the spelling
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 18:54:08 PM by lanky »
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Offline Chevalier laughingnome

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 18:19:31 PM »
Vista was like XP had an abortion but the coater lost that fight.
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Offline Ghandi

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 19:25:02 PM »
I have been using Vista at work for 6 months, and longer at home with my laptop... About the only downside so far is that some games dont run on Vista that do on XP, and that is the sole reason that my main PC still has XP on it...

Even the new compy I am planning will have XP on it, but I am still debating whether to dual-boot XP/Vista or not...

Offline Moral Orel

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 19:33:32 PM »
I'll be skipping vista.  It's been out for a while already and while it's on the laptop I bought for my dad, I personally won't use it.  I might take a look at Blackcomb/Vienna once it does come out but I'm more interested in migrating entirely to linux.  I do have a few linux boxes but I don't really know how to troubleshoot them (lucky they don't die).  The way I hear it, Microsoft is buying up internet infrastructure (Yahoo bid anyone) in order to move to a service style modal OS, as in pay as you use/monthly charge/google apps style software, including their OS.  Monthly charges are certainly not my style!  Besides I'm pretty much done with pay software all together!  I just wonder how games will work, the good ones still only work on XP.  Open Source is the wave of the future if you didn't already know! ;)
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 05:06:10 AM »
I wish I had the patience for Linux.

Yeah, Microsoft putting all of their software on remote servers scares me more than a little.  Who knows though.  Our kids will probably just think of it as the way of things.

Offline phazz

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 23:32:45 PM »
With the right hardware specs, Vista isn't that bad.  On dad's laptop is runs like shit because it is a low spec Acer (C2Duo 1.8GHz, 1Gb RAM).   But on my clients Asus (C2Duo 2.5GHz, 2GB RAM, 512MB NVIDIA Graphics Card), it seems to run smoothly, but for gaming, I agree you can't go past XP. 
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Offline Superman

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 09:04:55 AM »
Why should I use up all my system resources running my OS?

Offline spider ☭

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 20:22:47 PM »
I wish I had the patience for Linux
Ditto.


Bring back Windows 2000 I say.


Oh fuck.  I'm just not even going to bother ranting about Vista.  There's no point.  When I do finally have to move over, it will make me think about sitting down and taking the time to master open source.

The best I can say about Vista is that it has rearranged a lot of the user interface unnecessarily.  The worst I can say it is that it's a rip-off that wastes RAM and has a ridiculous amount of annoying default settings you have to change if it's to be at all useful.
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Offline Ghandi

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2008, 01:25:35 AM »
I agree with Spider in that Vista takes a lot more config and tweaking to get it to a way that you like than XP did

Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2008, 22:52:23 PM »
the big difference between Vista and XP is experience. Almost everyone has had access to XP and knows how it works and how to tweak the most out of it. Vista being new, it hasn't been explored as thoroughly and people are still trying to work out how to tweak the most performance out of it. Eventually I think once more people are used to it the uptake will speed up. Or they will move to Apple.
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Offline spider ☭

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2008, 11:48:16 AM »
Move to Apple?   Yeah, that is one advantage.  All the annoying n00bs might buy macs and stop calling me.    But anyone else with half a brain who doesn't have some specific requirement for mac is hardly going to jump out of the frying pan into the fail.  After all, Vista is just a shite attempt to copy Apple.  The consumer choice here isn't much of a choice at all.

Even if you had heaps of experience with Vista, if you get a new computer, you'd still have to sit down and turn off so much shit, including the fucking Aero GUI which is pretty much the main thing end users notice as being different from XP. It'd only be marginally quicker because you'd know what to change.   I don't know exactly how this works in large scale deployment.  Sucks to be an IT manager right now.

I've yet to see anything that Vista offers which you can't download as an add-on for XP, at least for end user n00b types.

Also, in a cynical ploy to encourage certain parts of the market to go to Vista Ultimate, there is no upgrade path from Home to Business or vice versa. 

Apparently Office 2003 doesn't run too good on Vista, seeing as most SKUs come with Office 2007 trials and it gets all conflicted like some emo kid who secretly likes Britney Spears.

If the uptake does speed up it's because XP goes end of life real soon and everyone will be forced to suck it.  Actually, that might see a downturn in licenses purchased, because lots of people are buying up now, then downgrading back to XP while they still can.   I think most people will just end up moving to Vista and dealing with it.

In conclusion, Vista is a dirty big haemorrhoid.
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Offline Moral Orel

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2008, 20:05:56 PM »
^yup my thoughts exactly.  I am about to try a new distro of Linux on one of my shite boxes.  if all goes well I need to find an network appliance disrto to play with.  I need to jump in head first into command line.  I never really learned it since I really got in after dos.

Anybody have any suggestions?  I've been thinking about a traffic shaper or maybe a hub but there isn't too much out there that I've seen that doesn't need a monitor and can work with a really shitty processor (233mhz)
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Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2008, 03:10:25 AM »
Well if you want a Linux distro that can work on a 233mhz box I recommend Debian. I've had Debian running on a P166Mhz box as a webserver sitting under a table.

Depending on the hardware you have available it can make a good NAS with Samba sharing. If you set it up as a NAS + FTP access from outside you can always access your files from anywhere.

It is possible to get a Debian LAMP running and it only takes up about 75 meg of disk space.

http://www.debian.org
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2008, 03:19:34 AM »
Here's an article about Microsoft's upcoming subscription model.

Offline Moral Orel

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2008, 10:31:47 AM »
Here's an article about Microsoft's upcoming subscription model.

Anyone who has not already switched to Open Office deserves a subscription Microsoft Office.

I hate monthly charges.  Nickel and Diming is the old phrase I use to describe that shit!
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Offline spider ☭

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2008, 10:31:49 AM »
I used Open Office a while ago, and had problems with it which Open Office had promised me it wouldn't present.  It seems to have improved since then, though.  I guess the only grumble I have now is that I forget I'm not using a Microsoft app, and use a shortcut that has a completely different function on Open Office.

The Open Office word processor is cool, but I get the shits with the spreadsheets.  It's only because Excel became my pet for a while, and having to make the effort to build up my knowledge of the Open Office equivalent is like being a marathon runner who has their brain damaged in a car accident, and then has to learn to walk again.

What?  I get to use hyperbole.  Shut up.
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Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2008, 14:57:22 PM »
I first used OpenOffice about 2 years ago, I certainly hope it is doing better now than it was back then.
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Offline Moral Orel

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2008, 05:11:03 AM »
Yes I have seen formatting errors in both Writer and in Calc ( particularly Calc) when opening docs that have been created in a "real" Microsoft editor.  Most of the ones I had in the past (over 2 years of usage now) have been fixed.  Besides when you create docs through Open Office they work fine in any editor.  Also in a recent court decision Microsoft has lost the right to control and keep secret the code that structures their office documents (.doc, .xml, .ppt, etc) due to their ubiquitousness in the market and the need for documents to interact with multiple software apps.  The more people use Open Office the less frequent format errors would and will be.  The only real problem is that shortcuts may have a different function but you get used to it fast once you start using it!
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2008, 05:41:23 AM »
I don't use it a ton.  I use the real deal at work, and don't have much use for that kind of thing at home.  I haven't run into many problems, but like I said I'm a light user.  I'm a fairly recent turn too, so I haven't run into the problems of earlier versions.  I've always relied on pirate copies instead until fairly recently.  Just as long as they don't get my money, right?

Offline spider ☭

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2008, 10:13:16 AM »
You don't play Excel at home?   It's my favourite game!
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Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2008, 13:36:58 PM »
You don't play Excel at home?   It's my favourite game!

I want to see if you can master the 3D engine in Excel and create a game for me to play.
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2008, 18:53:39 PM »
Create a game?  No, silly, Excel IS the game. 
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Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2008, 19:31:00 PM »
Excel has a 3D engine in it. Make a game based on Excel.
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2008, 09:14:02 AM »
I play Excel all day at work.  Sometimes I'll save my game and email it to myself to finish at home.  Other than that I usually have my fill by the time I get off of work.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2008, 16:18:38 PM »
Quote from: tgdaily
Redmond (WA) – There is no denying that the initial news about Windows 7, Vista’s successor, weren’t especially great for Microsoft. Vista is by far not as successful as Microsoft would have hoped and Windows 7 will have to carry the company until a completely new operating system, speculated to be code-named Midori, will be available. So, will Windows 7 be another Vista? Will it lag behind OS X Snow Leopard? Is multi-touch UI really as great as Microsoft claims it will be?

It seems that Microsoft is now confident enough to offer a sneak peek at the new Windows features at its upcoming developer and hardware conferences in October and November. It even set up an official Windows 7 blog on which senior engineers promise to discuss the operating system with users. It is a different approach than what the company took with Vista and appears that the wave of Vista criticism has had an impact.

Microsoft said that it will publicly reveal details and "in-depth technical information" about Windows 7 to developers attending its Professional Developers Conference (PDC) set to take place from October 26-29 and at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference (WinHEC) scheduled for November 5-7.

Writing on the new Windows 7 blog, Steven Sinofsky and Jon DeVaan, senior engineering team leaders, pledged to document the pace of development and offer a peak at Windows 7 features in the works from time to time. "With this blog we're opening up a two-way discussion about how we are making Windows 7," the company wrote. "We strongly believe that success for Windows 7 includes an open and honest, and two-way, discussion about how we balance all of these interests and deliver software on the scale of Windows. We promise and will deliver such a dialog with this blog."

It is quite apparent that Microsoft will be gauging early interest for the yet-to-be-revealed Windows 7 features and establish a measure to control or at least balance the news flow about Windows 7. Actual information coming out of this blog may actually be not as comprehensive as Windows might expect, as the authors said they will "not set expectations around the release that end up disappointing," like "features that don't make it, claims that don't stick, or support we don't provide."

So far, Microsoft kept a low profile on Windows 7 features. In terms of the base technology, we know that its kernel will be based on Windows Server 2008 kernel, which is an evolution of the Windows Vista kernel. It will keep the current driver model and will not be able to tap GPU for general-purpose computing. In short, Microsoft decided to play it safe and keep the Windows foundation in place. The new operating system comes in times when Microsoft is facing increasing competition on its own soil, especially by Apple whose OS X now leapfrogs Windows in terms of features and innovation. We can already hear Apple and pessimists saying that Windows 7 will be little more than a giant Windows Vista patch that uses multi-touch support as a sales pitch.

In fact, the only end-user feature that was promoted to this point was a multi-touch interface that will support multi-finger gestures in Windows, similar to the iPhone. Multi-touch will not be the default input method, but it will improve user interaction in all applications if the user chooses to use it. For example, you will be able to play a virtual piano by touching virtual keys on the screen, easily drag photos around the screen, rotate and zoom photos with two fingers and employ other multi-touch-based gestures to manipulate objects on the screen. The company first demonstrated these features at the WSJ's D: All Things Digital conference in May.

Microsoft is aiming Windows 7 for a late 2009 or early 2010 release (and according to our sources Q4 is the targeted time frame, since Microsoft does not want to miss the Christmas season again). If the company will be out by Christmas 2009, it will beat Apple in its own game, being the first to bring multi-touch user interface to the PC market. Apple's next OS X version dubbed Snow Leopard is schedule for an early 2009 released. For the first time, Apple's OS X won't be focused on new end-user features. Instead, Apple said it will optimize OS code, re-write it for full 64-bit support and support GPUs for general-purpose processing tasks.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2008, 04:53:55 AM »
The "pre-beta" of Windows 7 comes out at the end of October.  Whatever that means.

Offline Chevalier laughingnome

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2008, 05:17:49 AM »
The "pre-beta" of Windows 7 comes out at the end of October.  Whatever that means.
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Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2008, 15:28:33 PM »
alpha?
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Offline Ghandi

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2008, 20:32:27 PM »
Thinking of the lead up to Vista... there were a few pre-beta releases... they were releases to test a particular feature or two... They were in no ways a complete release...

Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2008, 18:44:05 PM »
Do you guys remember when they launched Windows 95?
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2008, 03:16:48 AM »
Nope.

Offline spider ☭

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2008, 13:16:22 PM »
Yes!    I was like "what is this shit?  where are all the windows?  Are they cascaded behind one big window?     Why does it look like a mac?!"

Actually it shouldn't have puzzled me because it was a bit more like the setup on my old Amiga but I was only little when I had that and the taskbar was a novel thing to me.
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Offline Socrates

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2008, 19:33:53 PM »
Personally, I have no real issues with Vista.

Ghandi, what games won't run? Haven't found anything yet that doesnt - I had something that needed to run as compatabililty mode, but that worked fine...

As for Aero, really kids, if you're not playing crysis or working with large sets of data, I guarantee you won't really notice a slowdown with enough ram (so 2GB or so -which is actually pretty cheap these days) and a processor above 1.5Ghz.

I'll admit there are features that aren't that cool - they got rid of ntbackup the fools, and the replacement is seriously retarded, but I find other things to be in its favour - the file manager is actually more useful, networking, though different, actually makes more sense (and is ironically more like linux) and is more secure - on the whole, I've found it fairly hassle-free, though I acknowledge you do need some decent hardware. But thats the nature of the beast - people whinged about when windows 3.1 introduced a GUI FFS...an then 95 again....and people scaled with it. Just took time.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2008, 12:59:20 PM »
The fact that people will get used to it is a very weak argument for it.    They'll get used to it because few have any viable choices other than linux or Mac.  We'll get used to it like an amputee gets used to missing a leg.  Doesn't mean Lefty should be all up-beat about the advantages of diabetes.

Have a look at how many 'Yeah sure it XYZ but ...." statements you have to make to excuse this.  It's not good enough to improve in some minor points while making us tolerate other problems.  Overall, it should be significantly better.  It's not that Vista is 100% crap.  Hey, look, it boots, and you can click stuff. Well that makes everything better.   The main problem with Vista is that it's a giant let-down.   Even if it was XP with a different GUI, it'd be disappointing.  If it's a new OS with a different GUI and few bugs, it's worse.

Why should Johnny Home-User have to buy "decent hardware" just to use a computer to surf the web or type up a Word document?   Especially when it's less on the impressive side and more like a disappointing pile of redundancies.  Maybe if my hardware was doing something better than running a video even in alt+tab, if Microsoft had spent that energy on other more useful things, it would be worth the money.
 
And it's hardly a testament to Vista's backwards compatibility that one individual here and there hasn't encountered any problems.  Let's look at the bigger picture - as far as I know, no state government departments have any plans in the next few months to move to Vista - certainly not Vic or NSW - they are holding on to their XP volume licensing for dear life even when it means setting up images for all the new equipment they buy (XP OEM licensing is over, most PCs have to ship with Vista.  Another clue why people will get used to this no matter how bad it is).  People are still buying Vista machines and going through an annoying and long process to downgrade them legally to XP.  Lots of people have problems with the software they run on Vista.

I've used Vista, and I clearly have issues with it.  That's all that matters.
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Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2008, 15:21:15 PM »
A weird thing about the licensing. It took them over a decade to finally stop selling OEM licenses for Windows 3.1 but they stop selling XP OEM as soon as they realise that Vista is not doing as well as they had hoped.
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2008, 17:12:27 PM »
I work in a public office and they sure as won't ever install Vista on our machines.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2010, 13:10:14 PM »
First of all, this thread seems to have attracted some newbies that I never met! Moral Orel, Socrates. Ahh.

Anyway, I came here because my McAfee Totel Protection 2009 subscription is about to run out. Why am I speaking here? Because I've heard that I won't need protection software if I'm running Linux. The only problem is that I also need to protect my girlfriend's laptop, too, and she's not as tech-savvy as myself. I'm happy to deal with Linux. I don't want to buy protection software. Something about buying a piece of technology that is constantly vulnerable seems to upset me.

Anyway.. I like Vista fine. In fact, I skipped from Win 98 SE all the way to Vista... yeah, quite a jump. My previous computer was 6 years old or something.

P.S. I never had to pay for protection software. My laptop came with Dell/McAfee SecurityCenter and then I got a free 3-User McAfee Total Protection 2009 CD from work.
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2010, 15:21:44 PM »
Lavasoft.

Ad-Aware.

Do it.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2010, 16:33:35 PM »
AVG free. 
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2010, 17:09:05 PM »
That one too.

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2010, 04:01:16 AM »
seriously - Microsoft Security Essentials (free) tested out VERY WELL with Win7... I have it on a couple test boxes and I'm thinking of switching my entire .org off of Nod32.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2010, 14:15:14 PM »
Avast!

Yargha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
Only you would bring up Music Man here.  ...and have it be totally relevant.

Quote from: Bignose
Well, I want to eat pizza but I'm not sure I should order pizza. What should I do?...

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2010, 10:57:18 AM »
seriously - Microsoft Security Essentials (free) tested out VERY WELL with Win7... I have it on a couple test boxes and I'm thinking of switching my entire .org off of Nod32.
I'd never even heard of it. Can Microsoft be trusted? And I don't have Windows 7. How did it test with Vista? EDIT: Oh, it doesn't have a firewall :(

Computers are like cars for me. Long, long ago we could've switched to more efficient, cleaner vehicles. Computers are just as dirty.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 11:02:00 AM by pianoman »
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2010, 11:44:34 AM »
LOL... I like your car analogy and yes... I'm not a Microsoft fanboy per se but I think they can be trusted as long as your copy of Windows is legit   :police:

I occasionally/regularly check some independent reviews here for such things:

http://www.av-comparatives.org/

Microsoft has been "dabbling" in the free/cheap AV/anti-malware market for a while... for a while it was "Windows Defender" a pay version of which was/is a component of Microsoft Forefront Security.

MSE works and pretty well... trusted?  well it depends on what you mean by that.   ::)

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2010, 11:48:34 AM »
Maybe I'll use MSE and a free firewall... although I prefer total suites as there's less likely to be any conflict.
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2010, 13:28:39 PM »
hardware Network Firewalls, only way to go :-p
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2010, 17:48:22 PM »
hardware Network Firewalls, only way to go :-p
Yeah. Even after I said it I was thinking hardware firewall. I'd love to fork out for a Cisco box. Just a Cisco router should be better than the free software out there.

Are you using HW? If so, what are you using?
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2010, 01:44:34 AM »
just look for a cheap Cisco Pix 501 on Ebay somewhere... they're made of awesome and nearly bulletproof.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2010, 09:12:02 AM »
Technically the only hardware I am using is in my router. I am using NAT as pretty much everyone does these days and I also have all the major ports blocked at the router. This is not foolproof and won't offer 100% protection for me but considering that I use a Mac I consider myself mostly safe.
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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2010, 11:14:26 AM »
Is NAT any good? And what would the "major" ports be?

just look for a cheap Cisco Pix 501 on Ebay somewhere... they're made of awesome and nearly bulletproof.
Hehehe, I used to work closely with Cisco. They don't like grey marketing. It's funny to now be looking at the resellers who were frowned on by Cisco.
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2010, 13:14:18 PM »
well... essentially NAT by way of functional design (not by way of intentional firewall) is going to block ANY unsolicited incoming connections on any ports... but that won't help you with a well-written IP/MAC spoofing scheme that tricks your NAT and it won't help you with things that have already infected your computer by your own poor browsing techniques....

Almost all of us are running NAT on our home routers right now - I would wager.  What's your IP address on your computer?  Is it Class C?  (192.168.x.x. 10.x.x.x or many others)... then you're behind a NAT router.

A pix will run NAT along with any firewall rules you install along with any holes you decide to intentionally poke in it.  Simply blocking "major ports" isn't really helpful... you ought to want to block any that you aren't using for inbound connections at all.

Of course - this plays havoc with dynamic p2p software like utorrent unless you assign it a static port and open a hole in the FW for it.

The pix 501 lacks higher features though like SPI and basic forms of IDS... but seriously.... nobody needs that sh*t at home.

---

Lanky - you're smarter than that... running OSX does not make you inherently safe... no more than Linux.  That's a logical fallacy and one I would expect you to not repeat!

---

Piano - yes... they HATE the ebay/grey "market"... and it's also the only way to get an affordable Cisco appliance, you know?  They're so bloody overpriced.

A short millennial ago in a job far far away... I used to have a nice big fat Nortel Contivity box that I used mostly as a 3DES VPN Concentrator but it had other nifty features too... sweet, high performance, safe, and much cheaper.

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2010, 13:16:03 PM »
also this... just for comparison purposes of practicality vs. wish lists...

At home I'm just living behind the NAT made by my Zoom DSL modem/router and Windows Firewall in Win7... LOL... never had a problem...

At work I'm just living behind a small SOHO Juniper Netscreen... LOLz... hey, we're a small non-profit.

Offline lanky

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2010, 16:10:33 PM »
Almost all of us are running NAT on our home routers right now - I would wager.  What's your IP address on your computer?  Is it Class C?  (192.168.x.x. 10.x.x.x or many others)... then you're behind a NAT router.

I think only the 3G Wireless Internet cards have no NAT now, pretty much any router/DSL modem you get from an ISP is going to use NAT. The ISP only wants to give you one IP from their pool.

Lanky - you're smarter than that... running OSX does not make you inherently safe... no more than Linux.  That's a logical fallacy and one I would expect you to not repeat!

And I know, I just got lazy. What I meant to say was I use a Mac and thanks to it sitting on Unix I've been able to configure the machine using Terminal to shut down every port that is not used and only allow certain ports to work. It is much easier to get the finicky control I like on a Mac than on Windows.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2010, 17:41:24 PM »
Yeah, I'm sitting behind a Belkin wireless router. I really don't like it, though. It seems - weak. And that's my greatest concern...

At home I'm just living behind the NAT made by my Zoom DSL modem/router and Windows Firewall in Win7... LOL... never had a problem...
... isn't the concern that someone gets through without you noticing? Your computer could be utilised in a DDoS attack, for example, but you'd never know it.

I used to work for Westcon Group Australia and they distribute Cisco, Nortel and Juniper. I was thinking of getting something like a refurbished CISCO851W-G-A-K9. It's just within the realm of a home geek budget. It'll shit all over a Belkin, at least, which is (only) a quarter of the cost.

I'd be totally be happy to sit behind some SOHO router at home. Anyway, would you say that Linux/Mac users have less to fear from virus/trojan/worm infestation but still plenty to fear from live attacks, etc?

UPDATE: Belkin has an N+ wireless router - which includes SPI. US$200
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 17:50:29 PM by pianoman »
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline The Pamasaurus

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2010, 01:18:52 AM »
*things I don't understand are being discussed. Resort to fallback comment: name calling*

Nerds!

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2010, 05:07:08 AM »
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

----

And I know, I just got lazy. What I meant to say was I use a Mac and thanks to it sitting on Unix I've been able to configure the machine using Terminal to shut down every port that is not used and only allow certain ports to work. It is much easier to get the finicky control I like on a Mac than on Windows.

I'll forgive you for that WIN response and I agree.  Why do we need Windows Firewall to shut down all our ports?  Why does the base IP stack in the OS have them all open without another service to close them?  That is rather dumb.

----

Yeah, I'm sitting behind a Belkin wireless router. I really don't like it, though. It seems - weak. And that's my greatest concern...

... isn't the concern that someone gets through without you noticing? Your computer could be utilised in a DDoS attack, for example, but you'd never know it.

I used to work for Westcon Group Australia and they distribute Cisco, Nortel and Juniper. I was thinking of getting something like a refurbished CISCO851W-G-A-K9. It's just within the realm of a home geek budget. It'll shit all over a Belkin, at least, which is (only) a quarter of the cost.

I'd be totally be happy to sit behind some SOHO router at home. Anyway, would you say that Linux/Mac users have less to fear from virus/trojan/worm infestation but still plenty to fear from live attacks, etc?

UPDATE: Belkin has an N+ wireless router - which includes SPI. US$200

Slight concern perhaps - not much.  I feel like - with the crappy DSL standards in the middle of the US (7mb down and 700k up on a good day)... I would notice.  It seems fairly unlikely - such [email protected] have their hands full with weak corporations with big fat pipes just waiting to be eaten-up generally, y'know?  In order for a trojan/bot to infect my computer it would have to invade my computer too, not just my router.  Wireless is tightly encrypted (WPA2) and coupled with reverse MAC as well....

open wireless - now there's something I'll freak out about.

Cisco 800 series DSL routers are nice - I had one of those as a backup to our primary circuit at a previous employer.  I liked it... I would often use it for my own private internet service in the office whenever I wanted to do some surfing that would get away from the logging/tracking/packet shaping box (which at that time was a Cymphonix Net Composer).  It's nice to be in charge of IT.... that said, 'twas my days of pre-self-accountability.  Even given the opportunity I wouldn't do that today.

Belkin including SPI?  wow... I wonder if it really works.  Might be happier with a used SonicWall or something.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2010, 11:05:35 AM »
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60
:laughroll:

*sigh* I'm so ambivalent. I just want a computer/network which will:
 - play whatever games I want it to (CPU and memory notwithstanding)
 - be relatively safe from malicious intent
 - be not-so-hard to configure (it doesn't need to too dumbed down, just not finicky and vague)
 - won't cost an arm and a leg and be vulnerable within 2 weeks after initiation
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2010, 13:25:43 PM »
awwww.... poor frustrated pianoman...

don't you worry, never fear, IPv6 will soon be here...

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Oh when will this thread DIE?
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Offline The Pamasaurus

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2010, 15:44:31 PM »
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60


Hah. I would too, but for different reasons.

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Oh when will this thread DIE?
As soon as you fix computing. Thanks, dear.
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2011, 09:08:56 AM »
I just got a Windows 7 computer at work. It's very pretty I guess. I haven't figured out how to make it look like it's still running '98 like I did with XP, but I'm adjusting.

Offline The Pamasaurus

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2011, 01:39:06 AM »
I've been using 7 at home for a while now. I like the environment.

BUT I HATE WINDOWS 7 AT WORK! Office 2010 is practically useless because I have to consider the formatting when I convert everything to .doc, because so many people still don't have Office 2007 and pdfs scare them.

What's worse is either IE9 or Windows7 itself isn't compatible with our Citrix client, so the software it connects to displays strangely and I need to look normal because I have to take screens of it to train with. I tried downgrading to IE8 and that didn't fix it. I tried a system restore (because it used to display properly) and that didn't fix it. I tried running IE with no addons. No luck. Safe mode didn't get me anywhere. Running the Citrix client in a Windows XP environment didn't do anything.

The only thing I haven't tried is exorcism. I even called the help desk, who did everything I had already done to no avail.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2011, 02:30:53 AM »
Yeah. I guess a few people here were running some software that wouldn't run on 7 on virtual machines. I just installed all of it on 7 and it worked fine though. I'm not smart enough to know why.

I avoid IE like the plague. Even most of my IE only applications seem to run fine on Chrome these days.

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2011, 02:32:48 AM »
What's worse is either IE9 or Windows7 itself isn't compatible with our Citrix client, so the software it connects to displays strangely and I need to look normal because I have to take screens of it to train with. I tried downgrading to IE8 and that didn't fix it. I tried a system restore (because it used to display properly) and that didn't fix it. I tried running IE with no addons. No luck. Safe mode didn't get me anywhere. Running the Citrix client in a Windows XP environment didn't do anything.

Citrix has a few very specific hotfix/patches out for IE9 and Win7 depending on your server's version of presentation server or metaframe and depending on how it's deployed.

Plain English answer:  Your IT guys should know what's up and be able to fix it, the tools are available.

Offline The Pamasaurus

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2011, 01:37:46 AM »
What's worse is either IE9 or Windows7 itself isn't compatible with our Citrix client, so the software it connects to displays strangely and I need to look normal because I have to take screens of it to train with. I tried downgrading to IE8 and that didn't fix it. I tried a system restore (because it used to display properly) and that didn't fix it. I tried running IE with no addons. No luck. Safe mode didn't get me anywhere. Running the Citrix client in a Windows XP environment didn't do anything.

Citrix has a few very specific hotfix/patches out for IE9 and Win7 depending on your server's version of presentation server or metaframe and depending on how it's deployed.

Plain English answer:  Your IT guys should know what's up and be able to fix it, the tools are available.

I'm not using IE9 anymore. I downgraded to IE8 (because other things aren't compatible with any other browser, *sigh*). And I found out it might not be Windows 7 because other people are running it without this problem.  >:( I spoke to someone yesterday who's more on the client end, and she said it was a "painting issue" that had happened once before and was never corrected. That sounds retarded. I bet there's just some screwy .dll file or something. I refuse to believe a problem like this cannot be solved.

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2011, 19:21:24 PM »
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....
I'd probably have like $60
:laughroll:

Hey Pam, I bet your IT team is just jaded and doesn't care about the issue.  I say this because of this exchange I had with one of my IT guys when trying to rectify my laggy PC:

Me: Excellent. Can you please confirm how you identified that the PC was causing the lag and not MoveX* or browser issues?

IT Guy: Ur pc had almost 600mb of dat that was in temp folder , which holds 40% of the ram and ur pc's registry was out of order generally this happens whn we install new software. remove and this will cause the issue. Now that the RAM is back and the memory has been freed from the junk u should face atleat 20-40% increase in speed of ur pc and the applications it runs.


.......... I'll just wait over here for your brains to bleed.


* MoveX is our lame ERP application.  It was designed to run in IE6.
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

Offline The Pamasaurus

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2011, 01:29:27 AM »
* MoveX is our lame ERP application.  It was designed to run in IE6.

Cringe


My issue turned out to be, of all the fucking retarded things, something to do with my screen resolution and the second monitor. So I had to stop using dual monitors and it worked again. Doesn't make ANY sense.

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2011, 02:55:35 AM »
My issue turned out to be, of all the fucking retarded things, something to do with my screen resolution and the second monitor. So I had to stop using dual monitors and it worked again. Doesn't make ANY sense.

Keep checking for driver updates for your video card (or video chipset)... chances are this will be fixed in a driver update and you can start using your two screens again.

Offline Otter ☧

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2011, 02:57:36 AM »
IT Guy: Ur pc had almost 600mb of dat that was in temp folder , which holds 40% of the ram and ur pc's registry was out of order generally this happens whn we install new software. remove and this will cause the issue. Now that the RAM is back and the memory has been freed from the junk u should face atleat 20-40% increase in speed of ur pc and the applications it runs.

Do your IT people really communicate so poorly in the professional environment?  My WORST grammar and spelling is used on message boards like this and on social networking sites because these are the times that I care the least what other people think of my language skills.  To earn respect in the workplace I have to be very careful!

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2011, 10:32:12 AM »
Do your IT people really communicate so poorly in the professional environment?  My WORST grammar and spelling is used on message boards like this and on social networking sites because these are the times that I care the least what other people think of my language skills.  To earn respect in the workplace I have to be very careful!
Yes, unfortunately.  Apart from his answer being a lie, it didn't even make sense in English.  Can you imagine if you explained things in that way?
LOL @ Pam... if I had $20 for every time someone used that word with me... well....

I'd probably have like $60

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2011, 08:45:22 AM »
Do your IT people really communicate so poorly in the professional environment?  My WORST grammar and spelling is used on message boards like this and on social networking sites because these are the times that I care the least what other people think of my language skills.  To earn respect in the workplace I have to be very careful!
Yes, unfortunately.  Apart from his answer being a lie, it didn't even make sense in English.  Can you imagine if you explained things in that way?

I'd be fired and I would deserve it.  The people I work with are smart and they can detect logical fallacies pretty effectively.  Some of them are even former computer people of some type or another.

To be fair, I probably get paid a lot more than your IT guy.