Christianity and Dinosaurs

[Pam]

*frown* You couldn't help it. The history of religion shows a great interest in converting heathens.

Heathens? Where are they? HIDE ME!

[pianoman]

Heathen.
Heaven.
Heathen.
Heaven.

[Pam]

Leaven?

[otter]

Heathen
Heaven
Leaven
Lent?

oh dang it... Lent is for Catholics, silly wabbit.

[laughingnome]

Speaking of which, today is Ash Wednesday and the start of Lent.

And I didn't even get pancakes yesterday

[otter]

Speaking of which, today is Ash Wednesday and the start of Lent.

And I didn't even get pancakes yesterday

Is it really?  Awesome!  I completely pulled that out of my behind... I knew it was "soon" because I knew I'd seen something on TV about Mardi Gras but that's about all I know. 

[pianoman]

Mardi Gras and Lent are linked? 

Is God gay?

Seriously, maybe heathen is just a bastardisation of heaven. Maybe the heathens were the holy ones and the righteous got jealous and re-wrote history. It happens all the time. Like how we all now pretty much realise that Jesus was a time traveller from the future.

[otter]

Mardi Gras and Lent are linked? 

Is God gay?

Seriously, maybe heathen is just a bastardisation of heaven. Maybe the heathens were the holy ones and the righteous got jealous and re-wrote history. It happens all the time. Like how we all now pretty much realise that Jesus was a time traveller from the future.

hmmm... couple of interesting theories here....

I'm no Cajun nor am I catholic.. but according to our friends at Wikipedia, they are directly linked:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardi_Gras

I don't know if it's true, but it sounds good

---

Is God Gay?

I think his definition is above human physical/sexual restriction... so he cannot be hetero or homosexual - the question is a misnomer.

You certainly may believe what you want. 

---

I haven't heard this "time traveler" theory before... sounds like a neat one.  Did you invent it yourself or is there some other credit to it?

I believe that - as quantum physicists are progressively "proving" - time is a factor limited to our human dimensional perception and not truly a linear restrictive factor over the universe.

That being said - if you believe that a.)  God is the God of the universe and b.)  Jesus is him in flesh... then certainly he would both be a "time traveler" and also "above" the idea of time at all.  He would always be here and everywhere, at all times.

That is actually what I believe or rather I should say I know... it sounds a bit mystic certainly.

[laughingnome]

Pianoman - Lent is a time of fasting that lasts for forty days until Easter Sunday. Although in modern times the regime has been slacked, traditionally dairy, meat and sweetened foods (desserts) are not eaten in this period. In a time before refrigeration this lead to mass feasting in the days leading up to Ash Wednesday as most of what could not be eaten would otherwise be wasted. The Italians call it Carnivale, the French Mardi Gras, the English Shrove Tuesday, and they are the only ones I know off-hand.

The phrase "Mardi Gras" (literally: Fat Tuesday) has come to mean a big street party and it's use then moved in Australia to the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras - held on a Saturday it should really be Samedi Gras, but whatever. I don't care enough.


^^Thanks to Catholic Schools and Italian Teachers who enforced the consumption of pancakes on Shrove Tuesday^^

[spider]

No one got any fucking pancakes.  Why do we have to be so disorganised?   Next time, gadget.

[Pam]

That being said - if you believe that a.)  God is the God of the universe and b.)  Jesus is him in flesh... then certainly he would both be a "time traveler" and also "above" the idea of time at all.  He would always be here and everywhere, at all times.

That is actually what I believe or rather I should say I know... it sounds a bit mystic certainly.

So, do you still believe in the second coming, considering you don't believe Jesus went away? 

[pianoman]

Holy Shit, that Mardi Gras trivia is the best I've heard for a while. I was pulling stuff out of my arse.

Except for the time traveller bit. It's my Dad's theory and it works as well as any. But I like otter's interpretation, that if God is God of the universe and hence unrestricted by time (or our perception of it) then he could just appear at any time. Which begs the question, why did he choose 2000 years ago? Why doesn't he live with us?

Now, I know someone will be thinking "but he IS with us". You know what I mean. A physical manifestation. A slob like one of us, a stranger on the bus, as Joan Osborne sang. Truth be told, I can make myself believe most anything, which is why I can't pick Jesus or Allah or Buddha. So whichever one of them in the time traveller, why doesn't he just hang around and show us cool stuff? Why was 33 years enough? Are we a scientific experiment?

[spider]

Excuse me but Buddha is not a deity, thank you very much, and therefore shouldn't be grouped with Jesus and Allah.  He's just a regular guy who could shoot red and blue lasers, fly, and turned himself into gold. OK?

[pianoman]

Excuse me but Buddha is not a deity, thank you very much, and therefore shouldn't be grouped with Jesus and Allah.  He's just a regular guy who could shoot red and blue lasers, fly, and turned himself into gold. OK?

My mistake. I'll group him with the Justice League of Asia?

[otter]

So, do you still believe in the second coming, considering you don't believe Jesus went away? 

Yes, because he and the prophets promised it.  I just don't think it'll "look like" anything we can possibly imagine or guess.

[otter]

Holy Shit, that Mardi Gras trivia is the best I've heard for a while. I was pulling stuff out of my arse.

Except for the time traveller bit. It's my Dad's theory and it works as well as any. But I like otter's interpretation, that if God is God of the universe and hence unrestricted by time (or our perception of it) then he could just appear at any time. Which begs the question, why did he choose 2000 years ago? Why doesn't he live with us?

Now, I know someone will be thinking "but he IS with us". You know what I mean. A physical manifestation. A slob like one of us, a stranger on the bus, as Joan Osborne sang. Truth be told, I can make myself believe most anything, which is why I can't pick Jesus or Allah or Buddha. So whichever one of them in the time traveller, why doesn't he just hang around and show us cool stuff? Why was 33 years enough? Are we a scientific experiment?

I wish I knew the answers to all those questions, they are all VERY good questions and many a thought I've had myself over time.

The truth of the matter is - I don't have all the answers about how he works or why.  Nobody does.  In fact - if someone claims to, he is the definition of a heretic just by claiming as such.

What I do know is what he's done in my life and in my heart.  I know about the real transformation I've experienced and the real Love that I've experienced, gained, and learned about.  That's enough for faith.

The logic doesn't work, it never has.  Paul promises that his ways will appear foolish, they are!  Why would any such a great being choose to love and care about us?  It doesn't make sense!  but there it is... and I know it to be true - just personally.

I'm a bit of a "quoter"... sorry if that's annoying to you... but I like how Robert Browning put it:

Just when we are safest, there's a sunset-touch,
A fancy from a flower-bell, some one's death,
A chorus-ending from Euripides,--
And that's enough for fifty hopes and fears
As old and new at once as nature's self,
To rap and knock and enter in our soul,
Take hands and dance there, a fantastic ring,
Round the ancient idol, on his base again,--
The grand Perhaps! We look on helplessly.
There the old misgivings, crooked questions are--
This good God,--what he could do, if he would,

[pianoman]

What I do know is what he's done in my life and in my heart.  I know about the real transformation I've experienced and the real Love that I've experienced, gained, and learned about.  That's enough for faith.

Maybe some day. But not today.

OK, how about monogamy? Doesn't God say we have to pair up only once? Why would it set rules? Is it better than us?

[lanky]

The truth of the matter is - I don't have all the answers about how he works or why.  Nobody does.  In fact - if someone claims to, he is the definition of a heretic just by claiming as such.

I have an issue here. Jesus comes back, he identifies himself, people ask for proof so he states that he knows how God works. He is a heretic, we nail him to a tree and watch him die. Jesus' second coming is doomed to failure since his own manual says anyone who says he is Jesus is a heretic.

What I do know is what he's done in my life and in my heart.  I know about the real transformation I've experienced and the real Love that I've experienced, gained, and learned about.  That's enough for faith.

The logic doesn't work, it never has.  Paul promises that his ways will appear foolish, they are!  Why would any such a great being choose to love and care about us?  It doesn't make sense!  but there it is... and I know it to be true - just personally.

At least you are the good kind of Religious Person. You have your beliefs but you don't force them on me. 

[Pam]

OK, how about monogamy? Doesn't God say we have to pair up only once? Why would it set rules? Is it better than us?

If it's god, then it's necessarily better than we. But that's one (among many) of the things that doesn't add up to me. We've already discussed in some other topic the issues with monogamy vs. serial monogamy and if it only pertains to marriage or promiscuity. I don't know if the Bible specifies what it means by monogamy or if the term is only the closest English approximation to some Hebrew concept.

Regardless, I don't understand why a god would create most creatures (all the other animals) and allow them to do anything without eternal consequence, but create one (humans) that is held to all these nigh-impossible standards. Humans aren't god and never could be; furthermore, we weren't created to be. And anything that would punish its own creations for not doing what it's told when it was purposefully made defective is just crazy...to me. 

I think Christianity would be a much better religion without all those sins and the whole hell and devil thing. But, then again, we'd have missed out on a lot of cool literature.

[laughingnome]

I have an issue here. Jesus comes back, he identifies himself, people ask for proof so he states that he knows how God works. He is a heretic, we nail him to a tree and watch him die. Jesus' second coming is doomed to failure since his own manual says anyone who says he is Jesus is a heretic.

Except that his second coming isn't to live like he did 2000 years ago, but for Judgement Day. I don't know what that entails exactly, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a big change: "He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end".

The comedic example is people led into a courtroom or such and see Jesus (read: whatever deity you want to) holding the gavel, at which point everyone shits their pants.

[pianoman]

Regardless, I don't understand why a god would create most creatures (all the other animals) and allow them to do anything without eternal consequence, but create one (humans) that is held to all these nigh-impossible standards. Humans aren't god and never could be; furthermore, we weren't created to be. And anything that would punish its own creations for not doing what it's told when it was purposefully made defective is just crazy...to me. 

Ah, but isn't it we humans who hold ourselves to these standards? And there are bad dog owners everywhere. They shout at their dogs an hour after they urinated on their bed and the dog wonders what the hell it did wrong. Maybe God's one of them.

[Pam]

Ah, but isn't it we humans who hold ourselves to these standards?

That's certainly what I believe.

And there are bad dog owners everywhere. They shout at their dogs an hour after they urinated on their bed and the dog wonders what the hell it did wrong. Maybe God's one of them.

I could talk extensively about dog owners for completely different reasons.

[pianoman]

I could talk extensively about dog owners for completely different reasons.

I'm guessing it has nothing to do with Christianity or dinosaurs, though?

[otter]

What I do know is what he's done in my life and in my heart.  I know about the real transformation I've experienced and the real Love that I've experienced, gained, and learned about.  That's enough for faith.

Maybe some day. But not today.

OK, how about monogamy? Doesn't God say we have to pair up only once? Why would it set rules? Is it better than us?

Sorry - I should be very clear.  What I meant was - That's enough for faith (for me)... it would be pretty arrogant to assume what you might need.

[otter]

Regardless, I don't understand why a god would create most creatures (all the other animals) and allow them to do anything without eternal consequence, but create one (humans) that is held to all these nigh-impossible standards. Humans aren't god and never could be; furthermore, we weren't created to be. And anything that would punish its own creations for not doing what it's told when it was purposefully made defective is just crazy...to me. 

It is a bit perplexing when you put it that way... but I don't think it stops there.  That's why we have the Christian ideas of Grace and Mercy... Grace being like undeserved kindness... Mercy being undeserved forgiveness.  The combination thereof partially defining "Love".

Scripture and standard protestant doctrine says you will be judged and punished accordingly for your actions if you don't have your faith in Jesus.  Jesus brought us the forgiveness... the key to "good behavior" after "saving" being that if you truly have his Love in your heart, you'll WANT to be more like him - as in to say - follow his example... not because you have to, but because you're driven to!

[pianoman]

you'll WANT to be more like him - as in to say - follow his example... not because you have to, but because you're driven to!

Driven to by the nature he supposedly instilled in us?

Isn't religion and religious conjecture an attempt to understand the mind of God, thereby defaulting to heresy? So anyone who is religious is a heretic.

Seems paradoxical to me.

[lanky]

Seems paradoxical to me.

You've just described the entirety of religion.

[otter]

Isn't religion and religious conjecture an attempt to understand the mind of God, thereby defaulting to heresy? So anyone who is religious is a heretic.

Seems paradoxical to me.

Not so much, IMHO... I don't really see it that way.  Of course you expected this response, I should hope.

I'm also not so big on the idea of "Religion" as I am focused on Faith and an active Relationship.  Semantics you say, important differences I say.

[pianoman]

Very important semantics. Perhaps you wish to gain distance from the institution and focus on yourself?

Religion: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

It seems that you can have religion without faith - at least in these semantics. In this way, I like it better - because if all we need to keep is morality, then we're all safe. Since we all have to interpret morality for ourselves, the religious believe that we are guided by God and the non-believers are happy with their rationalisation.

[otter]

I had a decent reply prepared for this... then I re-read it from the perspective of a  non-believer...

then I decided it sounded condescending and prick-ish... so instead you shall receive the saddest meme of all time:

[Pam]

^ That makes me happy. 

[otter]

I'm thinking Pam does not know the significance of MudKipz!

[pianoman]

Mudkipz

[lanky]

I FUCKING LOVE MUDKIPZ

[otter]

Mudkipz

hmmm... I read a story with better detail one time...

probably was on /b/ - meaning it certainly was full of lie and fail... but exciting somehow?  I think that's the definition of /b/ isn't it?

[Pam]

Just searched for a list of internet memes. Wikipedia's knowledge in this area is clearly lacking.

[spider]

um, http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/ ?   (NSFW)

[Hades]

What's white and flies across the evening sky?



----

The coming of the lord

[Pam]

um, http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/ ?   (NSFW)

Wow.

[Hades]

I'm here to convert people... into loving dinosaurs.

I have the easiest job ever.

It's easy to love something when it's dead. I miss you grandpa...

[lanky]

What's white and flies across the evening sky?



----

The coming of the lord

lol

[Hades]

Yeah, I heard a plan got splooged on at 20,000 feet - people are claiming it's the SECOND COMING.